Disenrollment Documentary You're NOT AN INDIAN To Debut at Palm Springs Film Festival

Tribal disenrollment is a process by which a Native American individual or entire families lose citizenship or the right to belong within a Native American tribe. This has become a norm in many tribes that have opened casinos.

We've been writing about tribal disenrollment on this blog since 2007.  My family was disenrolled by a corrupt enrollment committee of the then Pechanga Band of Luiseno Indians.  The tribal chairman is Mark Macarro, who is now the President of the National Congress of American Indians.

A new documentary film on tribal disenrollment YOU'RE NO INDIAN weighted heavily on the most egregious tribe of disenrollers in California, the Chukchansi Band of Indians from Coarsegold and the Washington based Nooksack tribe will premiere at the Palm Springs Film Festival 

PLEASE check in with us as we find out more about this documentary and the disgraceful effects on Native Americans stripped of their belonging.

The Injustice of Selective Tribal Disenrollment at Pechanga IS NOT Ancient History, it's 21st Century Bloodless Genocide

INJUSTSTICE for THEE, But NOT FOR..US

What happens when the people who have long harbored disdain for your family become not only your accusers but also your judge and jury? This is the heartbreaking reality faced by descendants of Paulina Hunter, a recognized member of the Temecula Indian tribe, who have been subjected to disenrollment under dubious circumstances.

Paulina Hunter was an Indian who lived in the original Temecula Indian village. Her membership in the tribe was acknowledged through documented and certified testimonies from her contemporaries from the 19th Century. When the tribe was evicted from their ancestral village, she moved to the area now known as Pechanga, living alongside her fellow tribal members. Even decades later, her standing as a tribal member was affirmed by one of the most revered and respected members of the tribe, who declared in a signed and witnessed document that he personally knew her as a member.

Historical accounts support her tribal membership. Individuals alive during the creation of the Pechanga Reservation provided signed, witnessed statements affirming their recognition of her as a tribal member. Tribal elders during the disenrollment hearings also confirmed that the Hunters had always been regarded as part of the tribe.

Yet, more than a century after her death, detractors now claim she was not a true tribal member but merely an Indian who coincidentally lived among them. These assertions challenge historical facts, suggesting that Paulina Hunter was mistakenly identified as a Pechanga Indian—despite being evicted with the tribe, receiving a government-allotted reservation plot, and being listed year after year in official records as a Temecula Pechanga Indian. They even dismiss the testimony of Dr. John Johnson, a curator of anthropology, who initially reported being 90% certain—and later 100% certain—that Paulina Hunter was a Pechanga Indian.

The disenrollment process itself has been deeply flawed and unjust. A small faction, known as the CPP, has claimed exclusive authority to determine who qualifies as a "real" tribal member, disregarding historical records and testimonies. One disenrollment committee member openly stated that the Hunters would be disenrolled regardless of the evidence presented. Another member reportedly slept through the hearings. Basic rights, such as the ability to take notes, have legal representation, or obtain transcripts of the proceedings, were denied.

For context, Pechanga is the name of a place, not originally a tribe. The Temecula Indians moved to Pechanga after their displacement and later established the Pechanga Reservation. According to Dr. Johnson’s findings, Paulina Hunter’s father, Mateo Quasicac, was born in Pechanga before the establishment of the reservation. He is the only Indian recorded in mission archives as being born there, making him—and by extension, his descendants—Pechanga Indians.

Attempts to halt this injustice were made. Years ago, in the largest tribal meeting in recorded history, the tribe overwhelmingly voted to stop all disenrollments and remove the disenrollment process from tribal law. However, this victory was short-lived. The ruling faction, shocked by the vote, suspended all tribal meetings and secretly overturned the decision, guarded by armed personnel. The Hunters were disenrolled anyway, further consolidating the faction’s control by eliminating a significant voting bloc.

This disenrollment is not merely a personal affront to the Hunters but an affront to justice, history, and the principles of tribal unity. It raises a troubling question: how can a tribe deny the very history and identity that bind its members together? By erasing the Hunters from their ranks, the Pechanga disenrollment committee has rewritten history to suit its agenda, undermining the integrity of the tribe as a whole.

Nooksack 306 Have Received EVICTION NOTICES. Forced Removal Creates New Trail of Tears in Washington State

 Several Indigenous families disenrolled from the Nooksack Indian Tribe — and subsequently served with evictions from Nooksack Tribal housing — opted to leave their homes voluntarily last week rather than face removal by Tribal law enforcement after a nearly decadelong dispute.

The families have rented their Nooksack-owned homes since the late 1990s and early 2000s through the federal Low-Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) program, with the goal of Eventual Tenant Ownership.

But since the families were part of more than 300 people disenrolled from the Tribe in 2016 — the legitimacy of which the families have long disputed — the Nooksack Tribe has been working to evict them. The families self-identify as Nooksack but Tribal leaders say they were incorrectly enrolled in the 1980s and have not provided adequate proof of their lineage, which the Tribe requires as eligibility for the families to live in Nooksack-owned housing.  

THE UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR has been involved, unlike Deb Haaland and Joe Bidend

I just yet another official communication about the dire situation of the elders facing eviction by the Nooksack Tribe. I urge the Nooksack Tribe to stop the forced eviction scheduled today of 3 families, and find a more humane solution. I also urge the Federal Government and…

— UN Special Rapporteur on the right to housing (@adequatehousing) November 29, 2024

The Trauma and Pain of Losing Tribal Heritage: The Devastating Consequences of Disenrollment

 Disenrollment is the process of removing members from a tribe's rolls or membership, effectively stripping them of their tribal heritage and all the associated benefits that come with it.

This is an experience that can cause immense pain and heartbreak for those affected. Losing tribal heritage through disenrollment can have significant social, cultural, and economic consequences, and the impact is often felt for generations.  This is an abuse of our ancestors.

For those who have been disenrolled, the pain of losing their tribal heritage is multifaceted. They may feel a profound sense of loss and grief as they are cut off from their ancestral roots and no longer have a connection to their tribe. They may also feel a sense of betrayal, as the tribe that they believed to be their family turns its back on them.

At Pechanga, the disenrollment of my ancestor Paulina Hunter, 107 years after she died, and the same after so many years of traveling by wagon from Los Angeles, to Temecula, to be included in the censuses was a direct attack, by people who were not with the tribe at that time.   The Butch Murphy family for one.

For many Native Americans, being part of a tribe is not just a matter of ancestry or heritage. It is a vital part of their identity, providing a sense of belonging and community that is difficult to replicate elsewhere. Losing that connection can be isolating and traumatic, leaving people feeling adrift and disconnected from their cultural and social roots.  Read NATIVE HEART  written by my cousin Della.

Disenrollment can also have significant economic consequences, as those who are removed from tribal rolls lose access to tribal resources, including healthcare, education, and financial assistance. This can be particularly devastating for those who rely on these resources to survive, such as the elderly or those with disabilities.

The loss of tribal heritage through disenrollment can also have a profound impact on future generations. Children and grandchildren may be cut off from their tribal heritage and culture, leading to a loss of traditional knowledge, language, and values.  IN FACT, PECHANGA sent jack-booted thugs to pull our youth from the tribal school, see that video description here.
This can have a lasting impact on their sense of identity and their ability to connect with their community and cultural roots.

Venetian Resort Las Vegas Partners With Apartheid Civil Rights Abusing Pechanga Tribe

 Abuse of individual Indians at the hands of tribal governments and/or tribal officials- led to the introduction and enactment of the Indian Civil Rights Act of 1968 (ICRA).  Unfortunately the ICRA did not contain an effective enforcement mechanism to deter tribal governments from violating the rights of the individual.    Pechanga is ONE OF THOSE TRIBES.   Pechanga practices APARTHEID and segregation on their reservation.

Pechanga Resort Casino in Temecula and The Venetian Resort Las Vegas have partnered to provide guests of each resort shared access to amenities, casino club member rewards and other benefits.

“This is an exciting time for us,” said Ken Perez, president of the Pechanga Development Corporation, in a phone interview. “The Venetian is an iconic Las Vegas resort and approached us with this partnership idea. Las Vegas casinos have approached Pechanga for about 10 years about partnerships, but we declined them as they weren’t right for us or our guests, but we liked this one.”

With this new partnership, most of the perks guests receive will be based on their play. Each guest must be a Venetian Rewards member and a Pechanga Club member to receive special offers, discounts and invitations from each casino resort.

Some perks for the various tiers of Pechanga guests heading to The Venetian Las Vegas include late hotel checkouts and discounts at the Venetian Shops and the property’s spa. With the newly signed partnership with The Venetian Resort, Pechanga rewards members will receive exclusive access to hotel rooms, shows, private parties and other amenities.

Venetian Las Vegas guests can now also receive perks at Pechanga Resort Casino, including hotel room upgrades based on availability, reduced green fees at Journey at Pechanga, monthly drawing entry multipliers that add up faster, access to monthly gifts and other bonus offers.

Pechanga Resort Casino has other partnerships with major sports teams and venues in Southern California. Pechanga’s guests and rewards members currently receive invitations to attend games at the Los Angeles Lakers, LA Clippers, Los Angeles Rams, Los Angeles Chargers, Los Angeles Angels and San Diego Wave. The property also offers guests access to shows and events at Pechanga Arena San Diego, SoFi Stadium and the recently opened Intuit Dome.

The Tribal Disenrollment Scandal: Unforgivable Betrayal of Native Heritage and Identity

 

Photo by Native News Online

Disenrollment, the systematic and brutal removal of Native Americans from tribal citizenship, has gutted Indigenous identity and community for thousands of individuals. This outrage has affected more than 11,000 Native Americans nationwide, yet leaders and organizations continue to ignore the wreckage left in its wake. In California, this movement of betrayal has a particularly notorious figure at its helm: Mark Macarro of the Pechanga Band of Luiseño Indians and current President of the National Congress of American Indians.

While the face of Macarro may be familiar to Californians from his appearances promoting tribal gaming, there is another, darker side to this leader. He is not only the public face of tribal gaming’s promise of prosperity, but also the face behind a brutal, calculated campaign to strip his own people of their birthright. The truth behind disenrollment within the Pechanga Band is one of greed, deception, and an unquenchable thirst for power—making it one of the most scandalous cases of disenfranchisement in Native American history.

Macarro's  Legacy of Corruption and Power

Mark Macarro’s consolidation of power came at a heavy price—one paid by his own tribal members. Under his leadership, the Pechanga tribe forcibly removed 25% of its membership. Thousands of individuals with deep roots, historical claims, and ancestral ties were unceremoniously stripped of their tribal citizenship. This was no mere bureaucratic exercise. It was an intentional and calculated move to consolidate power, to hoard the financial rewards of the Pechanga Resort & Casino, and to eliminate any voices of dissent. While tribal sovereignty allows tribes to determine enrollment, the reality is that the will of the people was undermined. When tribal members voted to end disenrollments, the Macarro-led council ignored their decision, choosing instead to perpetuate a process that would concentrate benefits into fewer hands.

Macarro and his allies on the council have not only disregarded the people’s voice but have also refused to address corruption within the Pechanga Enrollment Committee, which operates in blatant disregard for fairness and transparency. This committee shuffled critical documents to block rightful members from enrollment, revealing a shocking level of corruption and quid-pro-quo dealings within the tribal government. Instead of acting to protect the integrity of his people’s identity, Macarro allowed—and arguably encouraged—this manipulation, all to keep power centralized and unchallenged.

Personal Profit Above Tribal Welfare

The financial motives behind Macarro’s actions are undeniable. In one of the most glaring examples, he hired his second wife’s lobbying firm without the tribe’s General Council approval, funneling over $1.25 million of tribal funds to her company. This clear conflict of interest not only lines his own family’s pockets but speaks volumes about his regard for proper governance and tribal welfare. While the disenrolled suffer the loss of their heritage and community, Macarro ensures his inner circle reaps financial benefits.

Moreover, his failure to address a case of over 1,000 Class II slot machines (early 2000s)  disappearing under his watch raises serious questions. This is not an isolated incident; Macarro’s leadership has repeatedly tolerated, if not outright endorsed, corruption, as no charges were sought against those responsible, including a former tribal chairwoman. To claim ignorance or indifference is an insult to those who have lost everything under his rule.

DISENROLLMENT is Deception and Cultural Betrayal

One of the most offensive betrayals of all came when Macarro testified to Congress that the Pechanga tribe would preserve sacred cultural land, the Great Oak property. However, these promises were hollow; instead, a golf course was erected on that very land. Macarro’s disregard for the cultural heritage of his people extended not just to their membership rights but to their sacred spaces, a shocking contradiction that cannot be overlooked.

Adding to this legacy of deception, Macarro has twice attempted to appropriate water rights from Pechanga allotment holders, again misrepresenting facts to serve his agenda. These attempts to undermine the property rights of Native allotees—who have lived on and maintained these lands for generations—illustrate his willingness to distort reality to achieve his aims.  He was ultimately successful, due to his lobbyist wife writing the bill, but with modifications due to our meetings with the House Natural Resources Committee. 

The Apartheid Reservation

The creation of what can only be described as an apartheid-style reservation within Pechanga is perhaps the most heartbreaking of Macarro’s actions. Disenrolled children were forcibly removed from the tribal school, and Pechanga now resembles a divided society, with former members pushed to the margins, stripped of their cultural and political rights. The reservation has become a microcosm of exclusion and division, one that echoes some of the darkest chapters in history.

The fact that agencies like the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA), National Congress of American Indians (NCAI), and Native American Rights Fund (NARF) have turned a blind eye to this tragedy is equally appalling. By ignoring these egregious human rights abuses, they perpetuate the very betrayal of Native American communities they claim to protect. How long will they continue to support leaders like Macarro, who violate the very fabric of Indigenous identity?

Mark Macarro and those who support disenrollment are guilty of a betrayal that cuts to the core of what it means to be Native American. This isn’t merely about casino profits or political influence; it is about severing thousands of Native Americans from their heritage, their identity, and their community. The Pechanga Band may be the most prominent face of disenrollment, but its horrors reverberate across tribal lands throughout the nation.

Disenrollment is nothing less than a modern-day form of cultural genocide, erasing the identities of Native Americans with callousness and greed. It is long past time for those in positions of power to condemn disenrollment for what it is: an unforgivable betrayal.

RESTORE the Citizenship to Disenrolled Native Americans RIGHT NOW, DURING NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE MONTH

This month-long holiday is a time to celebrate rich and diverse cultures, traditions, and histories and to pay homage to the important and numerous contributions of Native American people throughout the centuries.

Left unsaid is the issue of over 11,000 Native Americans who suffered the abuse of tribal disenrollment, moratoriums and banishment  at the hand of their own tribes.  This holiday month presents the PERFECT opportunity for tribes to restore their people to their rightful place in the tribe, to bring all the people home.

We have been writing this blog for over a decade and a half. That's much too long for tribal people to be out in the wilderness and for too many young Native Americans to be born without their rightful heritage.

Each picture on my left sidebar tells a different story, there are also numerous links to tribal stories of their heritage and rights ripped by corrupt councils.  

PLEASE..do the RIGHT THING this month, advocate for JUSTICE

Pechanga Chairman Mark Macarro's Selective Amnesia: Ignoring Present-Day Trauma While Denouncing Historical Wrongs

Pechanga works to end being associated with the historical traumas of our ancestors, yet is willingly blind to the CURRENT TRAUMA they have perpetrated on our ancestor's descendants.  WHY is 19th century trauma, worse than 21st century trauma to the living?  MY FAMILY's Pechanga ancestors were abused by mission priests, the Spaniards, the Mexicans and the heritage they bequeathed us with, has been abused by Pechanga leadership. 
 
Pechanga has dropped the term LUISENO from it's well known name, as reported in the Press Enterprise .  

Pechanga Chairman Mark Macarro stated:  “We have long discussed this name and its origins associated with the mistreatment, enslavement and killing of our ancestors.”

It is a grave oversight for Chairman  Macarro to denounce historical abuses while turning a blind eye to the present-day travesties perpetuated by his council of tribal leaders through disenrollment.

While he rightly acknowledges the mistreatment, enslavement, and killing of our ancestors, he conveniently ignores the current mistreatment inflicted by our own Pechanga leaders.

The trauma inflicted upon our people by mission priests centuries ago finds its modern counterpart in the egregious act of disenrollment.  Those of us who suffer this injustice experience a profound loss, not just of tribal affiliation, but of their very identity and heritage. The pain runs deep as they are forcibly severed from their ancestral roots, denied the connection to their tribe that is rightfully theirs.  This betrayal by those including Chairman Mcarro, who should protect and uphold their people's legacy only deepens the wounds of historical injustice, perpetuating a cycle of trauma that echoes across generations. It is time for tribal leadership to acknowledge and rectify these present-day abuses, prioritizing unity and healing over division and disenfranchisement.

At Pechanga, the disenrollment of my ancestor Paulina Hunter, 107 years after she died, and  decadess after she spent so many weeks of traveling by wagon from Los Angeles, to Temecula, to be included in the censuses was a direct attack, by people who were not with the tribe at that time.   The Butch Murphy family for one.

For many Native Americans, being part of a tribe is not just a matter of ancestry or heritage. It is a vital part of their identity, providing a sense of belonging and community that is difficult to replicate elsewhere. Losing that connection can be isolating and traumatic, leaving people feeling adrift and disconnected from their cultural and social roots. 

The 21st century should be a time for healing for all those who have been abused.  And there are 11,000 of us.  Come on, Chairman Macarro, DO THE RIGHT THING.

Preserving Heritage or Perpetuating Injustice? The Shocking Reality of Tribal Disenrollment in Native America

Thank you to the loyal readers of my ORIGINAL PECHANGA BLOG.    I've been away from this blog on tribal disenrollment for far too long.  At my age, I've given 17 years to it, and I've had many life changes recently (mostly good) including moving to the east coast, away from my ancentral lands.  We've not been able to establish a good beachhead in this battle,  I'd hoped for a lot more support from the 11,000 of us who have been affected.    But there's always hope that ONE MORE ARROW in the quiver will do the job.  Of course, I choose a day before I leave on vacation to bring my first post, but if you will help us by sharing on your social media AND email to your friends and family and ask them to start checking OPB again, maybe we can find some social justice and honor our ancestors.

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In the despicable and decades long saga of tribal disenrollment, a sentiment of profound disgust surges through the veins of justice.  The very act of disenrollment, stripping individuals of their rightful belonging within their tribes, is an affront to the principles of humanity and dignity.

 

It is a heinous betrayal not only of the present but also a dishonor to the sacred lineage of ancestors who fought to preserve the unique identities of Native communities. To witness tribes engaging in such a repugnant practice is to witness the erosion of the bonds that tie generations together, undermining the very essence of tribal unity and cultural continuity. 

The ancestors, whose sacrifices echo through time, are surely turning in their spiritual resting places at the desecration of the legacy they sought to protect. The stench of injustice in tribal disenrollment is a stain on the tapestry of Native history, and it is incumbent upon our government to rise with righteous indignation against this nauseating violation of the sacred right of belonging.

We are Betrayed and Abandoned:  Justice in Indian Country isn't only for Chiefs and Chairmen

In the vast expanse of Indian Country, our many rich traditions and diverse cultures intertwine, yet, a dark cloud looms over the sovereignty of tribes—a cloud forged by the betrayal of the weak and defenseless (those without power) within their own communities. It is high time our government stands up for the principles of justice, morality, and human rights by addressing the harrowing issue of tribal disenrollment.

The moral outrage against tribal disenrollment should not be a mere whisper; it demands a thunderous roar that resonates through the halls of power. The time has come to hold accountable those tribes that violate the rights of their own people, and the following measures are not just necessary but imperative:

Eliminate Federal Funding for Violating Tribes:

The lifeblood of tribal governance often flows from federal funding, empowering them to serve their communities. However, this financial support should not be an endorsement of injustice. The government must wield its financial influence judiciously, cutting off funding to tribes that trample upon the rights of their own members through disenrollment.

Cease Taking Land into Trust for Abusive Tribes:

Land is not just property; it is a sacred connection to the heritage and identity of Native communities. The government should refuse to take land into trust for tribes that engage in abusive practices such as disenrollment. By doing so, it sends a powerful message that the desecration of tribal identity will not be facilitated by the very entity meant to protect it.

Integrate Enforcement Actions into the Indian Civil Rights Act:

Justice delayed too long is justice denied, as the Rev. Martin Luther King wrote in his Letter from Birmingham Jail. It is time to fortify the legal arsenal against tribal disenrollment by incorporating enforcement actions into the Indian Civil Rights Act. This will provide a robust legal framework to address violations and ensure that the rights of individuals within tribes are safeguarded against arbitrary decisions that strip them of their identity and belonging.

Publicly Expose Tribes Guilty of Harm:   Can you say  PECHANGA, PALA, REDDING or CHUKCHANSI to name just a few?  We have many stories on this blog, PLEASE look around, and use the search bar to help.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and in this case, transparency is paramount. It is crucial to publicly expose tribes that have harmed over 11,000 Native individuals through disenrollment. By bringing these injustices to light, we not only hold the perpetrators accountable but also pave the way for a cultural shift within tribal communities, encouraging them to prioritize justice over division.

Tribes, like any other governing entity, have the right to autonomy, but this should not translate into impunity when it comes to violating the rights of their own people.  Our politicians must no longer lend their support to tribes that engage in such egregious practices. (GAVIN NEWSOM, KAMALA HARRIS)   The government's duty is not just to uphold sovereignty but to champion justice, ensuring that the weak and defenseless are shielded from the tyranny within their own tribes. 

It's time to demand accountability from our elected leaders, for THEM and US to stand up for the betrayed, and to forge a future where the principles of justice are etched into the very fabric of Indian Country.  NO MORE LIP SERVICE.

270 Native Americans, Majority Navajo, Living on the Streets of Phoenix After Sober Living Home Crackdown

 Navajo law enforcement teams made contact with several hundred Native Americans from various tribes who are living on the streets in the metro Phoenix area, after the state cracked down on Medicaid fraud and suspended unlicensed sober living homes, Navajo Nation Attorney General Ethel Branch said Monday.  Read the Full Story Here

Teams that included Navajo police officers reported making contact with more than 270 Native Americans, the majority of them Navajo, Branch said.

Many tribal members accepted offers to stay in motel rooms or other temporary housing for a few days before moving to legitimate facilities, while others agreed to return home to their reservations, Branch said. The teams worked with local police agencies and Community Bridges, Inc., a nonprofit that provides services for people with addictions.

“Unfortunately, many of our relatives when they came out of these facilities didn't have cell phones,” Branch said, adding that Navajo police officers allowed the people they found to use their own cell phones to call their families.

INDIAN COUNTRY MUST LIGHT THE PATH TO ABUSING TRIBES Restore Justice and Compassion: Returning Disenrolled Native Americans to Their Tribes

Or, is it the NEW Indian Way

The issue of disenrollment of Native Americans from their tribes is  demands urgent attention from both tribal communities and the federal government. 

Disenrollment is a violation of basic human rights, which not only undermines the dignity and self-determination of those affected but also damages the fabric of our tribal communities as a whole.

The practice of disenrollment is not a new phenomenon, but it has become increasingly prevalent in recent years, particularly in California. Many tribes have members from their rolls, often due to disputes over membership eligibility or claims of fraudulent enrollment.  Pechanga Chairman Mark Macarro actually said my ancestor was fraudulently enrolled, which would make ANY current Pechanga member fraudulently enrolled, 

Disenrollment robs individuals of their heritage and identity, and also strips them of their access to essential tribal services, such as health care, education, and housing, as we've seen in the Nooksack 306 eviction hearings

The need for social justice and compassion in addressing this issue cannot be overstated. Native Americans have endured centuries of oppression, genocide, and forced assimilation at the hands of the federal government and colonizers. Disenrollment perpetuates this legacy of injustice and further marginalizes already vulnerable communities.

Elizabeth Hoover, Berkeley Professora CONFIRMS "I AM A WHITE PERSON" Pretendian NO MORE

 Another day, another academician caught in a LIE about their use of false native ancestry to get ahead. 

Elizabeth Hoover
UC Berkeley Professor

 Why do people want to be like Elizabeth Warren?  Or Ward Churchill?  Or Andrea Smith?  PRETENDIAN, they name is Elizabeth HOOVER.  It's still a growing cancer, to steal benefits from real native Americans

From Karen Townsend at HOT AIR:

This controversy has been going on for months. In October 2022, Hoover admitted she had no documents to prove her ancestry. She was hired by UC – Berkeley in 2020 as part of a diversity program. She specializes in environmental justice in Native American communities. On her new personal website, she issued her statement and said she will no longer claim Mohawk and Mi’kmaq ancestry. She is being labeled a pretendian.

I asked Are Pretendians the Reason for a spike in Native Population?

Students are checked harder than professors about their backgrounds.  It's getting ridiculous.