The FIGHT TO THE FINISH.
The battle for Chairman of the Pechanga Tribe will be: Andrew Masiel, current council member and son of the mother who disenrolled a hundred other Pechanga Mothers and the uncle of a man recently FIRED for stealing from Pechanga employees and Mark Macarro, handpicked chairman of the CPP and Splinter Group, known for his incredible shrinking tribe and bad temper.
In this corner: Evil "Andy" Masiel His opponent: Little Evil "Mark" Macarro
Who will the the tribe choose, the shorter, er, lesser of two evils in Macarro, or the big evil, the man who was part of the splinter group who broke up the tribe, something the Spanish, the whites couldn't do?
Stay TUNED for more, but I'll bet Mark would LOVE to have 300 votes back.
Mark, overturn your decision not follow the will of the people NOW and rescind the disenrollments!
Carnac the Magnificent predicts there will be a change in tribal leadership! After that, your guess is as good as anyones as to what will happen within the tribe....
ReplyDeleteI used to vote for Macarro back in the day and as a result of all that has happened would be hard pressed to do it again BUT going with the lesser of two evils seems to be the only logical choice!
I can't wait to see what happens. It was only a matter of time before they would turn on each other. Lets see how bad they can make Pechanga look now.
ReplyDeleteMost people who aren't related don't trust Andy Masiel. He's always been out for himself.
ReplyDeleteMark at least looks like he cares.
How many Mirandas will follow Jennie's lead anymore?
What is "LITTLE JOHN" gonna do now to help his not soo big brother (change laws).
ReplyDeleteLJ is a known ccp friend, who had resentment toward the HUNTERS for a lond time. Will "Little Jon" burn his own kin to save his soul(per diem).
WOW, how different thing could have been if the tribe followed their own rules & respected their REAL members.
HA HA HA!!
What ya gonna do MM, fold like a pair of 2's. What a P_ssy!
You asked for this dumb,dumb!!
U'r lies to the Hunters are following you, what a surprise!
U told the Hunter's not to worry as u were scheming to get them out.
God is on the Hunters side as we have done the right thing & kept our faith. We are good people with strong faith.
bring back the Hunters & save your A_S!!!!!!!!!!!
do the right thing for once Macarro!!!!!!!!!!!!
You still have no Idea what is going on MW boy.
ReplyDeleteWhen you figure it out it will be too late.
Better save that BIG CHECK.
For a member, you sure are clueless!
Who run's the E.C. MW boy?
They have all the power.
Yea right, you will fight them with all that weak paperwork. Your family once apon a time had a seat on the EC, but guess what she was scared away to save your soul from removal from the tribe(i can back it up with more facts such as names ect. ... if you wish?).
You did not back the HUNTERS, Original Pechanga People, karma is a bitch, good luck fighting JM!!
WB
Mirandas are still in question clueless, they were never cleared-just like you. They will follow JM(u better too)!!!
HUNTER- MM needs us again!!
And MY family has the information they need to make sure we stay in the tribe.
ReplyDeleteCopy machines are pretty good tools.
We'll be okay. They wouldn't dare try anything. Masiels ain't that dumb.
Don't be soo sure computer boy!
ReplyDeleteHA HA HA you have no clue!!
What is up with the stupid copy machine statement, again you have no clue of all the documentation the Hunters provided. I really used to feel for ur family, now,well, good luck.
Did u sell a sister to the masiels?
Hunters had way more than y'all & it didn't matter.
look in the mirror,____oy!!
better keep kissin masiel as_!
Funny thing is u never address the facts about the Hunters & how weak the tribe(m-boy's family too-BYU?) was not standing up for what was right only $$$$$.
You guys couldn't have been scared? As tough as u act.
Who's your relative Brigham Young?
He's Not pechanga!
Don't want to go there,huh, very questionable lineage everyone knows it!
Ready to break out the facts...
Pechanga is watching.
The people have spoken at there will be no more disenrollments. Masiels wouldn't dare try to overrule that.
ReplyDeleteHow we worship is none of your biz.
You ar whining from the outside. You talk big but haven't backd up anything.
You don't have any paperwork.
We DO on THEM.
Too Late!
ReplyDeleteThe paperwork on THEM was already presented by US- boy(THEY WERE CLEARED).
You are 2 steps behind.
U r so fun to debate-get one fact straight.
OP please, this guy is such a joke!
"How we worship is none of your"-
We don't care!(I was refering to ur lineage W-BOY-not who u worship)
But the cpp might
Check ur lineage-very weak.
How bout your auntie on the EC!
What happened there?
Soo misguided.
You need to check with ur family & learn about the history of your family,the Hunters(your former brothers),& the coruption that has poisoned the once proud pechanga tribe.
Please quit spewing the mindless crap it really makes your family look bad.
Yes, ask your dad, he knows the truth about the Hunters& he didnt do sh-t!(ask about your scared aunt).
Your family was at one time good friends to us. The Original Pechanga People,who did what was right,the Indian Way,you have no idea.
Now's a good time to assert your right to vote as a legal member.
ReplyDeleteYou could challenge the validity of the outcome of any election at this point that excludes those who were dis-enrolled illegally.
If the dis-enrollments were unlawful, then they can't have a lawful election with-out you.
The BIA knows how this works. I know they didn't hear you the first time, but they may have put their ears on now that Congress is involved. I say try again.
You are being unduly deprived of your right to participate in the self-determination of your nation.
If the Native Nation can't or won't correct it, than the Dept. of the Interior can insist on it.
Allen L. Lee
I can't believe that no one else is running? People are so misguided right now.
ReplyDeletePechanga is in deep trouble. We need a real leader.
Anyone who believes that the disenrollments are over has thier heads in the sand.
This battle is far from over.
They (CPP) pour money into the members pockets and lull them to sleep. Everyone needs to watch closely to what is going on.
Alot of smoke and mirrors.
Munoaboy, you are saying we are weak because we didn't fight to stay in the tribe when what we did was try to follow the law which our opponents went around to get us out and all you are doing is saying that you have paperwork to prove you belong?
ReplyDeleteThe CPP's main argument was that paperwork can't prove membership that only Oral Tradition, word of mouth (who they say belongs) can prove membership.
Munoaboy we have census records that show our family are from Pechanga, probate records, and an allotment patent that says we Temecula Indians. We still own land on the reservation haven't you ever been to Hunter Lane it is one of the first streets after the paved road ends?
We have proof both that our family were living in the old Temecula village before the people were evicted as well as on the reservation when it was created and did any of our paperwork stop us from getting kicked out of the tribe? NO!
About 15 of us Hunters, myself included, signed that petition to put it to the vote of the people that was passed in 2005 to outlaw disenrollment but we were kicked out in 2006 anyway.
If it didn't stop us from getting disenrolled why would it stop them from doing the same thing to you?
AGAIN, THE PEOPLE SPOKE IN 2005 TO END DISENROLLMENTS AND WE WERE PART OF THE PEOPLE WHO SPOKE BUT WE WERE KICKED OUT ANYWAY IN 2006.
IT DIDN'T SAVE US SO MAYBE IT WON'T SAVE YOU EITHER!
I WONDER IF TRIBAL MEMBERS ARE BEING TOLD THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PAPERWORK AND THAT IS WHY CURRENT MEMBERS THINK THEY ARE SAFE BECAUSE THEY HAVE IT?
IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN MUNOABOY IS IN FOR A RUDE AWAKENING!
This reminds me of the report that Joseph W. Howell gave to the Department of the Interior on March 3rd, 1909...
ReplyDelete"In the midst of this unhappy situation came the Civil War. The tribes divided, some joining the Northern Army, others casting their lot with the Confederacy. Even the individual tribes themselves separated into factions, and many members of each temporarily abandoned their homes and joined the forces of the North or South, as their respective opinions dictated. When the war closed an effort was made to bring these warring factions together and to re-establish their governments. New treaties were entered into by the United States with each of the tribes and once more an attempt was made to build up the national organizations. With the establishment of the nations, the men who had in war opposed each other allied themselves in opposing political factions. First one party and then the other would acquire possession of the tribal governments, after elections of exceeding bitterness. It is safe to say that the political struggles which ensued were oftentimes more fierce and bitter than the political struggles which have been characteristic of the South American Republics.
The claim was made to me in the course of my field investigation, that men were stricken from the tribal rolls by the party in power to prevent the opposing party from carrying elections. This claim is supported by the Dawes Commission, mention above. It is indisputably established by certain laws which will be found in the Indian law books restoring individuals to citizenship whose names had theretofore been stricken from the rolls for political and partisan purposes only."
Seems we still have much to learn from a hundred years ago....
EG
Paper work!!! What makes you think we didnt have the paper work? I would bet that if the Hunters were to stack up the certified blue ribboned paper work turned into the enroll,ment committee that the stack would reach over 100 feet tall! All of it proving beyond a shadow of a doubit that we belonged.
ReplyDeleteKnow what they said about it? We were told no matter WHAY we turned in, that we were going to be disenrolled anyways!
The disenrolles lost their tribal enrollment from lack of membership credentials. The disenrollees never had the facts on their side. Nobody has ever produced a birth record for Paulina Walla Hunter. The public record shows her parents, but nobody knows their ancestry. The Bureau of Indian Affairs has no Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood for PWH, meaning the BIA did not track her as an Indian. The BIA probate information for PWH contains sworn statements from others who knew her, but as a neighbor, not as an Indian. Further, the BIA now understands that it mistakenly granted PWH a trust allotment at Pechanga. The list of holes and shortcomings in the case of the PWH descendants goes on and on. Of course, the disenrollees continue to avoid addressing these deficiences and others, while misleading themselves and their listeners in this serious matter. In doing so, they dirty themselves, and also become public asses.
ReplyDeleteHey munoaboy, Im from the munoa tribe! Were blood realitives, since you have all this pull in the tribe, cant you do anything to get me and my family in? Ive been waiting for twelve years! I was just two weeks late in turning my application! what do you think cousin?
ReplyDeleteHey Im from the munoa clan myself, we have just as right to be in tribe as the rest of you! you hunters keep saying how much history you have! Well then why are you kicked out? Ive heard of secret gatherings around town, you want the people in the moratorium to back you up! what happened when you were in the tribe! did you care about people in the moratorium? hell no! Paybacks a bitch!
ReplyDeleteDid I care about the people in the moratorium? YOU BET! My mother was thrown out of the office when she confronted the enrollment commettee about there mishandeling of enrollment applications and people being in the moratorium... She was SCREAMED at and told to GET OUT! I also shared a large portion of my per capita with two other families who were having a hard time and were stuck in the moratorium, as I figured they had a right to the money and why shouldnt I share.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Anonymous means Munoa CLAN, but then I don't know any cousins named Anonymous.
ReplyDelete2 weeks late? Were you 2 weeks old when you tried to enroll? Where WERE you? Why weren't you TWO WEEKS EARLY??? What were you waiting for, a watch or calendar?
We were kicked out because that was the CPP's plan all along, to eliminate voting blocs as the tribe will find out shortly.
ReplyDeleteIf meeting were secret, how did you find out?
We voted no on the moratorium for the most part, so WHAT MORE do you want? If you understand math, there weren't that many votes.
And what payback? Moratorium people aren't paying anything back, unless the moratorium is dropped and they're letting you in now. Otherwise, we are in the same boat.
Save your breath for cooling your soup and start writing letters and knocking on doors as spreading the word about what PECHANGA has done to you and your family. And make sure all your family is active.
For the post from Anonymous on PWH.
ReplyDeleteAnytime that you would like to see the REAL certified sworn statements from tribal elders of the Pechanga band on Paulina's ties to the Pechanga people, we would be happy to share them with you.
Tribal Elders who only spoke Luiseno new her as a Pechanga indian living at the Pauba Ranch prior to the allotments at Pechanga and up until the time the allotments were givin.
Direct Quote from probate of PWH probate Nov. 15 1915 interview with Dolores Tortuga Pechanga Indian:
Q. Were you aquanted with the deceased Pechanga Indian allottee, Paulina Hunter, during her liftime and are you familier with her family history?
A. Yes, I knew her as a neighbor when we Pechanga indians lived on the Pauba ranch near Temecula, California, and up to the time that she left the tribe and went with ther husband, Thomas Hunter, an American, to Los Angelas to Live. They moved there shortley after the allotments were made at Pechanga (about 1893).
This deposition clearly shows Paulina in Temecula prior to the Temecula Eviction and with her people on the reservation after the eviction.
Dan Tortuga A Pechanga indian was interviewed on the 5th of January 1937.
In a sworn statement he states he was personally acuainted with Paulina Hunter sons daughters ALL HIS LIFE.
He was age 62 on the above date.
Oh that would mean he was born in 1875 the year of the Temecula eviction!
We have the truth. The BIA has the truth. The Pechanga enrollment committee has the truth.
The Pechanga tribal council was givin the truth.
The CPP does not want to accept it.
There is stacks of evidence.
I almost forgot.
The enrollment committee's own hired expert Dr. John Johnson gave them the truth also.
Hey Ed B.
ReplyDeleteI read your above post.
Very Cute.
Readers, here is a glimpse of the smoke and mirrors used by the CPP.
The post is filled with half truths and misinformation.
The Hunters have the proof.
Are you targeting another family ED? I bet you are.
I also believe you are supporting Andy M. in his bid for the Chair. Lets see. How does that play into your little game?
What family will be next?
All you want is more money. I heard the Casino is a little slow these days. Construction is at a standstill. Very tight budget. They gotta keep the Per Cap checks rolling.
It's all gonna come crahing down Ed.
By the way,
Antonio Ashmen knew Paulina Hunter as a Pechanga Indian. The Hunters have a certified sworn statement signed by him.
TTFN
Hope you can sleep well at night.
Hey munoadork I did say clan, what are you the third grade or something? Does your mommy know your on the computer? As usual you know nothing, If I was two weeks or early it didnt make a difference, all you blood suckers stuck together. Besides your not smart enougfh to think on your own! I know I will never be enrolled! Like every one says enjoy it while you can! My appoliges to you hunters were all brothers and sisters Manureboy kiss my butt!gfpet
ReplyDeleteI have been rtying to figure out WHY those who follow after the CPPs way keep bringing up the lame argument "why we didnt try to help those in the moratorium when we were enrolled in the tribe". This has got to be one of the lamest lines of thought, after all my own children were caught up in the moratorium (the enrollment commettee lied to me about there enrollment), my cousins were also caught by it. Why wouldn't I care about those whom I loved?
ReplyDeleteI can only surmise is the reason is that THEY can't comprehend why in the world anyone would care about those in the moratorium, as they themselves could care less about those in the moratorium.
It's time for me to answer the anonomous who made this statement:
ReplyDelete"The disenrolles lost their tribal enrollment from lack of membership credentials.
Nobody has ever produced a birth record for Paulina Walla Hunter.
The public record shows her parents, but nobody knows their ancestry.
The Bureau of Indian Affairs has no Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood for PWH, meaning the BIA did not track her as an Indian. "
The only thing relevant is the fact that Pauline Hunter was recognized by her peers and the BIA as a citizen/member of the Pechanga nation. That is a clear and indisputable fact by all parties concerned. Whether she was an "Indian" or not is irrelevant.
The relevancy also tranfers to the act of recognizing the Hunter and Apis descendants, also not in dispute, as citizens/members of the Pechanga Nation.
One can not be forced to re-qualify their citizenship on a changing generational view. The U.S. or any independent state can not say they made a mistake with the 14th amendment and now all the descendants of slaves will be de-citizenized. If Pauline Humters peers did not consider it a mistake to recognize her as a citizen, than her citizenship status can not be changed posthumously. That history can not be changed or re-written.
This is the International Human Rights position:
"Article 24
Every child shall have, without any discrimination as to race, colour, sex, language, religion, national or social origin, property or birth, the right to such measures of protection as are required by his status as a minor, on the part of his family, society and the State.
Every child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have a name.
Every child has the right to acquire a nationality"
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cpr.html
This is the Human Rights violation:
"Tribal security came to the school and told 5-year-old Danny Madariaga he had to leave, the family said."
david.kelly@latimes.com
http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=42035239&groupID=106153559&adTopicID=1&Mytoken=CE82F4F7-5993-4BB8-B833C43E7AC8F56C1738435
Allen L. Lee
Before I tackle the issue about the CPP family who says we don't belong when in reality they may not belong themselves, one more comment to our critic.
ReplyDeleteHe or she says the public record doesn't prove Paulina Hunter's parents were Indians.
When in fact the public record, the pardrones of the San Luis Rey Mission, show just the opposite is true!
The public record our critic speaks of is a bogus entry made in the International Geneology Index of the Mormon Chruch which is not an historical source at all.
In fact we contacted the Mormon church about the "so called information" that was in their index and they sent our family a letter saying that you can't use their index as a source document as it is merely a list of names and we would have to go to the original historical source documents.
THE SO CALLED CASE AGAINST OUR FAMILY'S CITIZENSHIP AT PECHANGA WAS BASED PURELY ON HEARSAY AND MISSING DOCUMENTS FROM THE HISTORICAL PERIOD AND THAT'S IT FOLKS!
I'LL SIGN OFF ON THIS POST AGAIN WITH DR. JOHN JOHNSON'S COMMENTS THAT ACCORDING TO SURVIVING HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS WE ARE PECHANGA AND TEMECULA PEOPLE!
P.S. In going to the Mormon index Websie I found that the entry was made by a member of the Mormon chruch and it was made after 1991 but so far I haven't been able to find out who made the entry.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteReaders, a couple of comments above were deleted at the request of the author.
ReplyDeleteI have only deleted one comment on this blog due to language and personal attack
In the 1915 probate hearings for Paulina Hunter's allotment Pechanga elder Dolores Tortuga said when she was asked, "were you acquainted with the diseased Pechanga Indian allottee Paulina Hunter?"
ReplyDeleteTortuga responded, "yes I knew her as a neighbor when we Pechanga Indians lived on the Pauba Ranch near Temecula, California."
The key words here are "we Pechanga Indians," which shows Tortuga was including Paulina as part of "we," the Indians of Pechanga and the examiner in the probate hearing clearly is referring to Paulina as "the diseased Pechanga Indian allottee."
Tortuga's testimony was collaborated by elder Jose David Rodriguez who added he knew Paulina Hunter as a neighbor on the Pechanga reservation.
The key testimony in our favor is a sworn statement in 1976 by Antonio Ashman, the foremost expert on tribal history quoted in the Pechanga tribe's own Web site as describing the 1875 eviction from the Temecula village and who is called a vaunted (much praised) elder on the tribe's own Web site.
Ashman said in a sworn statement that he knew Paulina Hunter as a member of the Pechanga band and that he remembered that Pechanga band member Martin Berdugo had called Paulina his aunt and that Paulina had sometimes stayed in the home of Salvador and Michela Quilich (Quilig) to whom she was related.
Our critic claims that there is no evidence showing Paulina's parents were Indians however, Dr. John Johnson, the tribe's own hired expert who was commissioned by the Pechanga tribe to research the geneology of Paulina Hunter, identifies her father as Mateo (Mathias) Quasicac.
So how do we know he is the same person as Mateo Walla?
Johnson explains, while the name Walla is listed in the marriage records of Paulina's marriage to Thomas Gordon Hunter in 1868, Johnson said, "many Indian families of this period were adopting the use of surnames, as was the Euro-American custom. The Church records show there was considerable experimentation with surname use by all former Mission Indians. A variety of surnames would be used, even within the same family, before one version was finally chosen that continued to be used as an inherited family name."
So a lot of Pechanga families also had different last names for earlier generations before a name stuck as the family name. It makes sense as last names were European, not Indian, in nature.
So how do we know if those earlier generations were really the ancestors of the other Pechanga families if their last names were also different?
It is true we haven't found a birth record for Paulina Hunter but again Dr. Johnson explains that according to various estimates of her age recorded in census records and her death certificate that she had been born between 1838-1845.
The two surviving Pardrones list births from 1811-1835 and that between 1835 to 1850 the priests at the San Luis Rey mission quit making regular entries in the Pardrones and he adds, "The original books of baptisms, marriages, and buriels for San Luis Rey have been lost for more than 150 years, which hinders many Luiseno families in their search for documentary evidence pertaining to their ancestors."
So records are missing or weren't regularly kept during the historical record in question so could our critic answer the same questions he or she is asking about us for his or her own family?
Dr. Johnson concluded that according to "the preponderance of evidence gathered from the surviving documents leads to the conclusion that Paulina Hunter was a tribal member of Temecula and Pechanga by virtue of her ancestry from he Luiseno villages of Toulepa and Temecula."
Let's assume for a moment that some of our critics have been on the reservation for a long time and that they are not a bunch of crooks that they seem to be..
One family in particular may have been there for some time but this family has no allotment
and they don't appear to be on any of the census records from the 1890's, the first censuses for the reservation.
As our critic points out, in his or her eyes our family living on the reservation when it was created and in the village before the reservation is not good enough but one would think that we have a better claim than someone who may have had a presence on the reservation in the 20th century, no matter for how long. After all, the reservation was created in the 1880's, in the 19th century, not in the 20th century.
The main requirement is lineal descent from an original Pechanga Temecula person and descent from the 20th century, again no matter for how long, is not good enough.
Regarding the Certificate of Indian Blood, a lot of us, the Hunters have these that say Pechanga but I understand that the Riverside BIA has been changing designations so who knows what they might say if someone was to get one now?
BY THE WAY, ONE OF THE MUNOA ELDERS IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO GAVE A DEPOSITION IN FAVOR OF OUR (THE HUNTERS)MEMBERSHIP DURING OUR DISENROLLMENT CASE!
There were five current elders listed in the Hunter Record of Decision , in addition to the elders from the historical period in question, who also testified that they have always recognized us as Pechanga people compared to the three current elders all from the CPP faction who said we are not.
There were actually two more current elders who also gave depositions in support of us but those other two were not turned in until our appeal.
SO WE HAD SEVEN CURRENT ELDERS WHO SAY WE ARE PECHANGA,. NONE OF WHICH IS FROM THE CPP, COMPARED TO ONLY THREE FROM THE CPP WHO SAY WE AREN'T.
Someone made a comment about helping a couple of families in need of assistance with her per capita check! Im in need right now! can anyone help me! I work my butt off everyday! I wish I could enjoy those big checks thier receiving! I just want out of this moratorium! So go ahead manureboy make your childish comment you little s..t!
ReplyDeleteWhich one of the two has the biggest temper?
ReplyDeleteWhich one is the best backstabber, Macarro or Masiel?
The DOJ has it's hands full.
Addtional information about what our critic here said about the Certificates of degree of Indian blood (CDIB): this was not part of the case against us in fact it wasm't even brought up in our disenrollments at all.
ReplyDeleteThe enrollment committee stated in our Record of Decision that they were not making a determination of our status as Native Americans just, wrongly I believe, that we are not Pechanga Indians.
One would think that if there was any credibility to the implication that we are not even Native Americans at all that it would have been stated as a reason for disenrolling us.
Interesting that our critic here is the likely author of a letter that was presented against us to the enrollment committee that claimed Oral Tradition is the only way to prove membership that paperwork cannot show membership.
But he or she then claims we don't have the paperwork to back up our membership claims.
But what we do have, in addition to a lot of paperwork that shows we are Pechanga, is oral tradition in the form of depositions from current elders as well as elders from the creation of the reservation who know or knew we are Pechanga.
I guess Oral Tradition only counts if it agrees with the CPP faction's agenda of kicking people out of the tribe.
OUR RESIDENT CRITIC JUST POPS IN EVERY NOW AND THEN AND PLANTS SOME TWISTED STATEMENTS FULL OF, AS ANOTHER POSTER POINTS OUT, HALF TRUTHS AND THEN HE OR SHE DISAPPEARS FOR A TIME BUT WILL THIS PERSON STAY AROUND AND RESPOND TO OUR COMMENTS?
I DOUBT IT!
Ad the name Gloria Wright to the fight for chair.
ReplyDeleteIts gonna be a 3 ring circus!!
Mark just might have a shot after all.
Can you imagine how long the tribal meetings would be if Gloria was the head honcho??
ReplyDeleteThat lady loves to her herself talk!!
I along with alot of Hunters would vote for Mark again.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble is he has not had to face anyone better.
It would be hard for me to vote for Mark Macarro after what we have been through.
ReplyDeleteBut he may very well get back in because the CPP vote would be divided with Andy and Gloria both in the race.
It is good to see some division in the CPP ranks.